Curse

MercenaryKnight · May 09, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

[skill]Merciless Spear[/skill]

Heroes use this on foes above 50% health.

[skill]Ancestor's Rage[/skill]

Heroes do use ancestor's rage correctly. They only seem to use it if it'll hit 2 enemies or more. Also for me merciless spear is usually always waited on until they hit around 50% health. However my paragon heroes have other attack skills that can be spammed/ used more in between.

Richardt · May 09, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

[blood renewal]

Had a hero necro use this as some self healing....and lets say that when they decided to use it for self healing was when they were under alot of pressure.

Needless to say my Livia spent alot of time laying face down in the dirt.

Bront · May 09, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Oh, I've had problems with [Energetic Was Lee Sa]. Heroes don't like to cast it if they have another item, and they drop it immedately after they do cast it for the immediate effect.

Paul Dawg · May 09, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Yes, and from what I've seen heroes use it well with [searing flames].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Realy? [glowing gaze] on a rodgorts bar gets used quite well in my experience.

System_Crush · May 09, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

[Well of Blood] Heroes use it as a corpse control skill, they will not combine it correctly with any animate spells you give them, they just spamm it like mad when there are foes in their aggro circle.
When all foes are dead then they use animate spells on the single last corpse.

I used [Shadow Walk] on Jora, with the intention of getting her into the fray quickly so she could tank more effectively and a disabled cancel stance to get her back to me to defend the back line.
She completely and utterly ignored the skill.

elevenfifty5 · May 09, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Realy? I had a HB hero build that used that skill quite well.

Not true, [Aegis] and some of the condition removal skills they use just fine.

Yeah, Well [skill]divine spirit[/skill] got blacklisted off hero bars in my guild when heroes were introduced do to the fact they would use it as soon as it recharged. not when they really needed it. Maybe they changed it. still think there are better options out there for a hero.

When I talk bad on prot Im not really lumping condition removals in there. I just haven't seen a good prot spec hero bar that the hero doesn't completely fail at.

Xunlai Secret Agent · May 09, 2008, 07:28 AM // 07:28

The wiki seems to think that Heros will only cast Icy Veins on foes <20%, which is a waste imho.

Bront · May 09, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by elevenfifty5

Yeah, Well [skill]divine spirit[/skill] got blacklisted off hero bars in my guild when heroes were introduced do to the fact they would use it as soon as it recharged. not when they really needed it. Maybe they changed it. still think there are better options out there for a hero.

They don't "Hold" it, but they're good about spamming spells once they cast it, which is why it works well on an HB hero build (HB skill 7, DS skill 8, heals most of the other skills).

Honestly, if they use it for the first set of spells they cast, as long as they're spamming spells, it doesn't matter, and they get it again later in the fight if they need it on recharge. They don't use it out of combat at least.

Richardt · May 09, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xunlai Secret Agent

The wiki seems to think that Heros will only cast Icy Veins on foes <20%, which is a waste imho.

I've always had luck with a hero using [icy veins].

EDIT: I think a list of skills that work well with heroes would be a godsend-can basically divide up something like:

Quote:

Skills Heroes Use Well:
....

Skills Heroes Use Okay:
....

Skills Heroes Use Badly:
....

Skills Heroes Won't Use:
....

And for examples you can include [aggressive refrain] under skills heroes use well, for Okay you can throw in say [zealous benediction], for badly [blood renewal] and for won't use [shadow walk].

Just an idea.

elevenfifty5 · May 09, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

They don't use it out of combat at least.

Thats a change. That was one of my first hangups. Still after so long not using it we have come to put together a rather decent healmonk Hero that can spit out heals. With decent energy management.

distilledwill · May 09, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Reported skill usage:

Skills Heroes Use Well:
[Dwayna's Sorrow][Aggressive Refrain][Jagged Bones][Death Nova][Signet Of Lost Souls][Ghostmirror Light]

Skills Heroes Use Badly:
[Glowing Ice][Glowing Gaze][Glowstone][Shock Arrow][Steam][Mind Blast][Energetic Was Lee Sa][Essence Strike][Zealous Benediction][Reversal Of Fortune][Cure Hex][Signet Of Rage]
[Merciless Spear][Maiming Spear][Disrupting Throw][Spear Swipe][Blood Renewal][Power Block][Mistrust][Guilt][Shame][Waste Not, Want Not][Leech Signet][Magebane Shot][Punishing Shot][Crushing Blow][Signet Of Shadows]

Skills Heroes Won't Use:
[Shadow Walk][Psychic Instability][Spirit Light Weapon]

Summary so far. Any Ive missed?

zling · May 09, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I'm surprised nobody mentioned [skill]reversal of fortune[/skill] yet...
it's the no. 1 skill heroes completely FAIL at!

Tyla · May 09, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Not true, [Aegis] and some of the condition removal skills they use just fine.

Why just note one or two skills when you can say the whole line?
There are also condition removals in healing ect.

And Aegis is just a fire and forget skill, anyone and anything can use it.

@Zling -- Read one of my posts. The whole Prot Prayers line.

DarkSpirit · May 09, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I could have sworn I have seen [[Shadow Walk] being used before once. As far as sac skills like [[Blood Renewal] is concerned, they have a tendency to sac themselves to death in a desperate situation.

Blind skills are use on casters as well as melee but that is not too bad if they combine it well with [[Signet of Shadows] but they use this signet poorly, as a damage skill even on non-blinded foes. [[Signet of Toxic Shock] just fails. [[Signet of Rage] is cast on casters as well as melee, even if the casters do not have any adrenaline skills. [[Leech Signet] is used to only interrupt spells to get the energy return.

In general, if monsters and henchies use the skill well, heroes would use it well and if they use it badly then heroes would use it badly.

For [[Protective Spirit], they tend to cast it on dying minions but they do cast it right sometimes and save asses. Lina uses it.

Does Lina use [[Reversal of Fortune] poorly?

Richardt · May 09, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

distilled, I would add [Spear Swipe] in the mix for badly.

My Morgahn was using it pretty indiscriminately last night-now why he felt that the Charr Swordsman needed to be dazed I'll never know (and this was in the Breach, so there wasn't much to interupt...). I also notice that he'll run up to an enemy, see that it's a melee and then run back and start chuckign his spear.

EDIT: For use well, I would throw in [jagged bones][death nova][signet of lost souls][ghostmirror light]

DOUBLE EDIT: [spirit light weapon] goes into the won't use pile-tried it a couple days ago and Livia never even used it once in a 2 hour period.

Boogz · May 10, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

[skill]Ancestor's Rage[/skill]

Heroes don't use them.

Heroes use AR pretty well

Marverick · May 10, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Realy? [glowing gaze] on a rodgorts bar gets used quite well in my experience. They won't exclusively target burning, but they will prioritize burning targets, and set them on fire first if they can [rodgort's invocation][Incendiary Bonds][glowing gaze] as the first 3 skills on a dual attunement line and found it's been used quite effectively.

That's because everything is burning nearly all the time.

Look at essence strike; it's spammed when there's no spirit. Shock Arrow, spammed randomly on foes. Mind Blast; just spammed on recharge. Same with Glowing Gaze, except the condition is nearly always satisfied so it doesn't really matter too much.

Richardt · May 10, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

Heroes use AR pretty well

By well do you mean randomly cast on any ally?

And I've been testing [preservation] and [rejuvination]-works pretty damn good!

distilledwill · May 10, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I have to say, Ive always noticed my heroes use [[Ancestors' Rage] pretty well, casting it on an ally only when an enemy is close.

Draikin · May 10, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

These kind of threads have been started before but I'm not sure if they're going to achieve anything? I've think I've compiled over a hundred individual AI skill issues on the official wiki where the QA team can read them directly, but I basically gave up on completing the list since hardly any of the issues are actually being reported (especially compared to the other bug report pages), let alone solved. For what's it worth, here's my opinion on some of the bugs mentioned here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Skills Heroes Won't Use:
[Shadow Walk][Psychic Instability][Spirit Light Weapon]

After testing them again, I can only conclude that every one of these skills is used correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

By well do you mean randomly cast on any ally?

AR is used on allies who are standing next to two or more foes, that's far from random and quite effective in PvE at least.

Quote:

[Signet of Toxic Shock][Signet of Rage]

Both are used correctly: the AI will in fact ignore their target lock/called target when using Signet of Rage and instead use it on the target (in range of course) that has the most adrenal skills on their skill bar. Signet of Toxic Shock is only used on targets suffering from Poison, I don't see how they can use it more effectively than that.

Quote:

[Steam]

Keep in mind that this skill will can be used in combination with [Glyph of Immolation] which applies burning before Steam triggers. In my opinion fixing this skill would mean:
- making the AI aware of the GoI combo
- let them ignore their locked target so they can target foes wielding martial weapons who are suffering from burning (burning condition not required if the hero has GoI active)
- if no foes wielding martial weapons can be targeted, let them use the skill on any burning foes in range. If those also aren't available, the AI should still use the skill on their currently locked or called target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

[skill]Power Block[/skill]

Heroes won't prioritize this skill, sometimes only using it after exhausting all their other interrupts against, say, a Ruby Djinn.

This is basically a global AI problem (the AI usage of [Glyph of Lesser Energy] suffers from the same flaw), since the AI doesn't seem capable of actually prioritizing skills that have a similar purpose. For example if an ally has less 50% health and the hero monk has both WoH and Dwayna's Kiss available they'll randomly select one of the two skills, even though WoH would be the better choice. I'm not sure if it's all possible for the developers to fix this problem without completely reworking the AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

[skill]Mistrust[/skill][skill]Guilt[/skill][skill]Shame[/skill]

Heroes use these on foes who don't have any of the spells necessary to trigger the hex. ex. using Mistrust on Warriors.

I agree on Mistrust, but Guilt on the other hand seems to be used correctly (in other words used on foes wielding a wand/staff). Shame doesn't seem to be used at all actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

[skill]Throw Dirt[/skill]

Heroes like to blind casters with it...

The way the AI uses this skill is by simply waiting for an opponent to get into nearby range of them. This was probably done to prevent them from running up to the frontline, but like you said they'll use it on casters as well. The solution is to only let them use the skill on foes in nearby range that are wielding a martial weapon.

Quote:

[Spear Swipe]

As a solution for this problem I would let the AI use this skill as if it were an interrupt for spells (same AI as the one for [Broad Head Arrow]). This means they'll activate it only when they notice their target using a spell, so they won't use it on warriors etc...

Quote:

[Glowing Gaze][Glowstone][Shock Arrow][Glowing Ice][Mind Blast]

These are indeed used inefficiently. The way I would solve this problem is to not only let them use the skills only when they'll get the energy gain, but also by letting them ignore their target lock when doing so. For example in the case of Mind Blast, you could then safely lock them onto a target and they'd still be able to use Mind Blast as energy management while using other skills on their target without burning through their energy reserve.